Saturday, February 23, 2008


Lisa Fox said...

Wow! You've posted some marvelous, heart-rending music here in the past 24 hours or so, BabyBlue. I keep coming back to hear it, as suits my mood ... for very different reasons.

But I am puzzled. You left the Episcopal Church several months back, didn't you? Why are you still grieving about developments in a church that you voted to leave?

I hear your sadness, and I hear the vitriol from your friends at StandFirm who have also left TEC. And I truly don't understand why you all continue to expend such emotional energy on a church that you left.

I hope you can help me understand.

Anonymous said...

Just because one divorces a spouse for committing adultery, does that mean emotions suddenly end the day the judge makes everything finial, or is that just the beginning of the emotional healing.

Lisa Fox said...

Anonymous, I can sort of understand your analogy. It rings true for me.

But if one has screamed and hollered all over town that she is a "harlot" and admonished everyone in the neighborhood to shun her, would one still grieve the divorce?

I do hear the pain is deep. I just do not understand why. But thanks for your help.

Anonymous said...

RE: "I hear your sadness, and I hear the vitriol from your friends at StandFirm who have also left TEC."

Heh heh.

There's plenty of anger from those of us who still -- quite joyfully -- remain in TEC as well. Anger can be a great thing -- and quite productive too.
; > )

But then . . . it's somewhat amusing to hear this kind of "question" from progressive Episcopal activists who positively revel in vitriol, bile, and spite.

Thanks, BabyBlue, for your continued expressions and arguments and posts.

I'm sure it's irksome to progressive Episcopal activists -- who for some reason toddle over to a blog of a person who has departed TEC, in order to read your posts and comment about how you shouldn't be writing about it. ; > )

Keep it up!


Anonymous said...

Found this from Crazy as a cat lady, er, fox, Lisa's blog:

"Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause, but also by nursing a fanatical grievance." -- Eric Hoffer

This Lisa, is called projection.

--Anonymous Catholic

Lisa Fox said...

BabyBlue, I hope you'll allow me to respond to Sarah's comment. She's raised some issues and questions that aren't exactly about you or your blog, but I hope you'll allow me to respond to them here.

Sarah, perhaps my tone didn't come across in my post as I intended. I meant it as a simple query – not a challenge or attack. I was genuinely moved by the elegiac posts that BB posted yesterday. I truly don't understand why folks who have left TEC continue to focus on it with such energy and anger. I left the Southern Baptist Church in the late '70s, with nary a backward look. They have their journey to make, and I have mine. I'm not angry with them, nor would I want to reform them. I simply realized our paths diverged. I left them behind and found another home. So I asked why folks who have left TEC continue to give it so much focus. I observe that BB generally seems to take a more elegiac tone than do former Episcopalians like Matt Kennedy and some of the more vociferous commenters at StandFirm.

Of course, my question was prompted partly because of the new proposal that Howe et al are now floating. I wondered how BabyBlue would view it, and was surprised to see the elegiac songs she posted in response. I know that loudmouthed bloggers on the left and right are excoriating it. I wonder why it made her so sad -- judging simply from the music BabyBlue posted.

Also, note that I chose to comment on BabyBlue's blog – not StandFirm's. BabyBlue is a thoughtful writer whom I appreciate. That appreciation grew much stronger when I saw her video blogs from New Orleans and was able to associate a face and voice with her blog. I visit here because I rely on her (as on Father Dan Martins) for a thoughtful perspective of the news from the right side of the aisle. So does that notorious liberal blogger, Mark Harris. I generally try to avoid the toxic sites like StandFirm, but I do visit other conservative sites.

I am moved by the sadness I've seen and heard expressed here. I still remember BB's account of her interchange with Bishop Lee in New Orleans; it was heart-rending, even to this "progressive." There was a time when I grew angry with TEC, and thought about looking elsewhere. It was a terrible time for me, for nowhere else in Christendom do I find the rich theology and liturgy that TEC provides. Nothing else quite fits. I wonder if BB is feeling something similar.

I hear (in what you wrote upstream) you're proud of your anger, Sarah. But that's not what I come to BB's site for. I come here for her thoughtful take on the issues of the day and for the lovely music she posts. I certainly don't want BabyBlue to quit writing! I simply tried to ask why she continues to focus on the church she (I think) voted to leave.

If former Episcopalians are truly happy in the new "Global South" provinces with which they have aligned, I don't understand the sadness or anger about TEC.

I suppose you will see me as a troll. That's not my intent, but I know all trolls say that.

Believe it or not, I would like a former Episcopalian to explain their continuing focus on our church, and I hoped BabyBlue – who is so articulate – might provide that. It wasn't a gauntlet. I meant it as invitation. Inspired by Howe et al who are seeking to find some accommodation, I was trying to reach out across the aisle.

You may paint me with a broad "progressive" brush, Sarah, but I grieve the loss that our church suffers when/if thoughtful folks like BabyBlue – and even passionate ones like you, Sarah – leave it.

Lisa Fox said...

Anonymous Catholic, I think I snagged that quotation back in the fall of 2006. It still strikes me as sadly true. Alas, I think we are hearing "fanatical grievances" from both sides of the aisle.

Lord, have mercy.

Anonymous said...

As I see it, BB is not a former Episcopalian, rather she is a true Episcopalian.

Then again, you are all former Catholics.


Anon Catholic.

Anonymous said...

As one who also left TEC, Lisa Fox's comment caused me to question why I read BB’s coverage of TEC so regularly and passionately. Carrying BB's analogy further, I wonder if the reason is that while the marriage is over, the divorce is not really over. We are still in front of the judge arguing over property settlement. It is hard to move on when you are being sued; and when your ex is trying to keep you from moving on and is, out of spite, wasting their own resources trying to bankrupt you through legal expenses. Particularly, when you thought you had an amicable gentlemens agreement for how to settle the estate and they did not follow through on that agreement.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lisa, I did not read your comments above as trollish.

RE: "I hear (in what you wrote upstream) you're proud of your anger, Sarah."

You hear incorrectly. In fact, I did not speak specifically of my personal anger. I simply acknowledged that the emotions of anger also exist for reasserters within TEC as well, not merely those who have left TEC and that many of those who post angry comments at SF are members of TEC. Anger is merely an emotion -- nothing particularly to be proud of or ashamed of. As long as handled appropriately, emotions are good things.

RE: "If former Episcopalians are truly happy in the new "Global South" provinces with which they have aligned, I don't understand the sadness or anger about TEC."

I can't speak for former Episcopalians, but I think it possible for a person to be happy where they are yet be angry at the injustice of some other place where they once were. It seems reasonable to me, though again, I can't speak for BB.

Speaking, now, personally, I find myself very rarely angry about the whole Episcopal situation. I have plenty of strongly felt emotions, but not a whole lot of anger, though certainly I feel angry occasionally. One would have to be a "bloodless Stoic" to have none, I think.

Generally, though, when I feel anger, it's not at the Episcopal church in general, but at the group of people that used the church as the host for their ideas, while busily hollowing it out from the inside, yet maintaining a facade of the real thing. But then I recall that those of us who passively and lazily allowed that are far more to blame and I direct the anger at us, which I think can be far more productive than directing anger at others -- I can actually do something if I'm mad at myself.

One might ask the opposite question -- why do so many progressive Episcopal activists post such rageful comments on various blogs -- after all, they are winning their agenda in TEC.

Perhaps BB will answer your question, and perhaps one of those progressive Episcopal activists will answer mine.



Anonymous said...

Lisa - Accepting your inquiry at face value that "I don't understand the sadness or anger about TEC" and " I truly don't understand why you all continue to expend such emotional energy on a church that you left." my sense is that you truly do not understand why there is continuing angst at several levels:
1. We have family/friends who are left behind in TEC who we genuinely see in spiritual peril due to TEC heresy.
2. We see potential for the next generation to be in spiritual peril due to TEC heresy.
3. We see influence of TEC heresy being foisted on the Anglican Communion wherever possible.
4. We are constantly reminded of TEC's aggression being directed through the legal system at dissenting or departing members/entities.

Enough said.

Kevin said...

Hi Lisa,

I think everyone above has many good points. All I'll add is using the divorce analogy, that it's still in process.

When friends go through the process, even in a uncontested procedural one, there is a time of limbo before the everything in finalized. CANA & TEC would be more like a contested one of who gets the house and kids.

Personally, I'm a cradle Episcopalian who is more at peace leaving TEC than leaving an ADV parish, but then TEC does have me on every list or call me up to schedule a time for the photo directory. Still probably less items to process than if contact was hostile or issue following me around. I'd image that would be very difficult.

BB was very active in region 7 and still has many friends. In fact she was asked to pray for the DioVA convention this year. So not only is the situation still unfolding but she has many relationships on all side.

None of this is happening in a vacuum.