I'm getting an effect like this was shot in widescreen but is displaying in 4:3 with the right side truncated. Is it me or is anyboday else seeing that effect??
I'll certainly be glad when the revisionists finally tick off enough people in my Church to make it count so that we can all jump over to ACNA. Thanks to the many media sources, people just tune out 815 and the dioceses and listen to the loud, obnoxious, and churlish comments made by to lineup of revisionists who have whined their way to the top of TEC.
Keep it coming: MORE Susan Russell, Louie Crew, Mark Harris, Elizabeth Kaeton, KJS, push for SSBs, more KTF nominations, etc. etc. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: keep ticking people off and then the "traditionalists" will be found to have been nearly the whole Church.
That ought to leave about 250,000 revisionists to pay the bills. I hope that they are rich. REALLY rich.
Allen, I am thinking that you are expressing your frustration. But I am going to push back.
We are about the Great Commission. "For God so loved the world," is what John writes in his Gospel. "For God so loved the world," that's a profound statement. I wonder sometimes if we should just sit on that one for a while and ponder it.
"For God so loved the world," not just the ones who obey His commandments or seek to follow Him. He doesn't just love His church or those who love Him. He loves the world. What does that look like?
God loves Susan Russell and Louie Crew and Mark Harris and Elizabeth Keaton, and Bishop Schori and all of those with whom we might disagree. Our disagreements - which are profound at times - does not change the fact, and it is a fact, that God loves them very very much.
It's hard to feel it ourselves sometimes, I know. But it doesn't change the fact. God loves those with whom we disagree. Very much.
I know that we all get frustrated - all of us. I know I do! But it still doesn't change the fact that God loves those with whom we disagree.
This is very important to know, because as Fr. Daniel implies - it is rather miraculous that ACNA is pulling together many very different people. And I must say, that within those groups there are those with whom I disagree. Some of my disagreements go very deep. But again, it doesn't change the fact that God loves them too.
I bring this up because your posting reminds me what can happen to us when we get frustrated and angry. We lose sight, I think - and it's so easy to do, I count myself in this, of where the battle for truth and life and love really is.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
When we believe in Jesus, when we believe in Him it has a profound transforming effect on us, in our hearts, in our life. Jesus looked out from the cross and saw those who opposed Him, who had nailed Him to the cross. He also looked out and saw many missing, the ones who had walked with Him and been His friends and they were gone. He saw John at the foot of the cross, brokenhearted, and so He entrusted His own mother to him, that he would have her comfort and she would have a home.
But He did not respond as we so often do. He did not pour out scorn or blame or His frustration on those who put Him there or that those who left Him there didn't get it. He didn't hurl insults or pass the blame, even though everyone was responsible for putting Him there.
No, instead He cried out to His Father, the one who so loved the world and said, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing."
Is there anyone who can escape that prayer that Jesus makes on our behalf - that He continues to make on our behalf, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing."
I think not. Again, this was what happened at the Province III Daughters of the King Retreat. We did not find unity by justifying ourselves or our positions, but by relinquishing ourselves to Jesus and finding one another at the foot of the cross.
That is a picture of what happens when we say, "Father, forgive us, we don't know what we're doing."
bb, thank you for saying it better than I could. Whether we are revisionists or traditionalists, we need to heed Paul's warning about looking at a sister or brother in Christ and declaring, "I have no need of you."
From my ongoing study of the proposed ACNA constitution and canons it is increasingly becoming evident that the ACNA will not be as comprehensive a church for "traditionalists" as some North American Anglicans had hoped it would be. Those who are "traditionalists" when it comes to evangelical Anglicanism or to the North American Anglican heritage of diocesan autonomy and lay involvement in church goverance and selection of church leaders are likely to find themselves taking a backseat to those who are "traditionalists" when it comes to Catholic Anglicanism, centralization of authority, and authoritarian episcopacy.
On the Heritage Anglican Network can be found a series of articles and proposals related to the ACNA constitution and canons. The most recent article is titled, "The Doctrine of the Canons of the Anglican Church in North America," and draws attention to the partisan doctrinal tone of this document and some of the implications of its provisions particularly for evangelical "traditionalists." The Heritage Anglican Network is on the Internet at: http://theheritageanglicannetwork.blogspot.com/
bb. Thank you for your comments. I agree with Fr. Weir though I doubt if he and I would agree in theology as I consider myself mostly on the Traditionalist and Anglo-Catholic side of things.
I agree with bb, Fr. Weir, et al., in that the liberals and conservatives need each other. But I agree with Allen that the strident comments in Preludium and the rest (Stand Firm as well) are helping to alienate the two factions all the more. Maybe DOK is our best hope for reconciliation or at least peace -- laity gathering together for fellowship and prayer.
Oooh, DOK -- Anglicanism's last, best hope for peace. Maybe you should include some Babylon 5 themes, Mary.
9 comments:
I'm getting an effect like this was shot in widescreen but is displaying in 4:3 with the right side truncated. Is it me or is anyboday else seeing that effect??
In spite of my being a revisionist, I will be pleased if ACNA can unite the various groups of traditionalists.
Anonymous, I get the same thing....
I'll certainly be glad when the revisionists finally tick off enough people in my Church to make it count so that we can all jump over to ACNA. Thanks to the many media sources, people just tune out 815 and the dioceses and listen to the loud, obnoxious, and churlish comments made by to lineup of revisionists who have whined their way to the top of TEC.
Keep it coming: MORE Susan Russell, Louie Crew, Mark Harris, Elizabeth Kaeton, KJS, push for SSBs, more KTF nominations, etc. etc. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: keep ticking people off and then the "traditionalists" will be found to have been nearly the whole Church.
That ought to leave about 250,000 revisionists to pay the bills. I hope that they are rich. REALLY rich.
Allen, I am thinking that you are expressing your frustration. But I am going to push back.
We are about the Great Commission. "For God so loved the world," is what John writes in his Gospel. "For God so loved the world," that's a profound statement. I wonder sometimes if we should just sit on that one for a while and ponder it.
"For God so loved the world," not just the ones who obey His commandments or seek to follow Him. He doesn't just love His church or those who love Him. He loves the world. What does that look like?
God loves Susan Russell and Louie Crew and Mark Harris and Elizabeth Keaton, and Bishop Schori and all of those with whom we might disagree. Our disagreements - which are profound at times - does not change the fact, and it is a fact, that God loves them very very much.
It's hard to feel it ourselves sometimes, I know. But it doesn't change the fact. God loves those with whom we disagree. Very much.
I know that we all get frustrated - all of us. I know I do! But it still doesn't change the fact that God loves those with whom we disagree.
This is very important to know, because as Fr. Daniel implies - it is rather miraculous that ACNA is pulling together many very different people. And I must say, that within those groups there are those with whom I disagree. Some of my disagreements go very deep. But again, it doesn't change the fact that God loves them too.
I bring this up because your posting reminds me what can happen to us when we get frustrated and angry. We lose sight, I think - and it's so easy to do, I count myself in this, of where the battle for truth and life and love really is.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
When we believe in Jesus, when we believe in Him it has a profound transforming effect on us, in our hearts, in our life. Jesus looked out from the cross and saw those who opposed Him, who had nailed Him to the cross. He also looked out and saw many missing, the ones who had walked with Him and been His friends and they were gone. He saw John at the foot of the cross, brokenhearted, and so He entrusted His own mother to him, that he would have her comfort and she would have a home.
But He did not respond as we so often do. He did not pour out scorn or blame or His frustration on those who put Him there or that those who left Him there didn't get it. He didn't hurl insults or pass the blame, even though everyone was responsible for putting Him there.
No, instead He cried out to His Father, the one who so loved the world and said, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing."
Is there anyone who can escape that prayer that Jesus makes on our behalf - that He continues to make on our behalf, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing."
I think not. Again, this was what happened at the Province III Daughters of the King Retreat. We did not find unity by justifying ourselves or our positions, but by relinquishing ourselves to Jesus and finding one another at the foot of the cross.
That is a picture of what happens when we say, "Father, forgive us, we don't know what we're doing."
bb
bb, thank you for saying it better than I could. Whether we are revisionists or traditionalists, we need to heed Paul's warning about looking at a sister or brother in Christ and declaring, "I have no need of you."
From my ongoing study of the proposed ACNA constitution and canons it is increasingly becoming evident that the ACNA will not be as comprehensive a church for "traditionalists" as some North American Anglicans had hoped it would be. Those who are "traditionalists" when it comes to evangelical Anglicanism or to the North American Anglican heritage of diocesan autonomy and lay involvement in church goverance and selection of church leaders are likely to find themselves taking a backseat to those who are "traditionalists" when it comes to Catholic Anglicanism, centralization of authority, and authoritarian episcopacy.
On the Heritage Anglican Network can be found a series of articles and proposals related to the ACNA constitution and canons. The most recent article is titled, "The Doctrine of the Canons of the Anglican Church in North America," and draws attention to the partisan doctrinal tone of this document and some of the implications of its provisions particularly for evangelical "traditionalists." The Heritage Anglican Network is on the Internet at: http://theheritageanglicannetwork.blogspot.com/
bb. Thank you for your comments. I agree with Fr. Weir though I doubt if he and I would agree in theology as I consider myself mostly on the Traditionalist and Anglo-Catholic side of things.
Father Bob Hayden.
I agree with bb, Fr. Weir, et al., in that the liberals and conservatives need each other. But I agree with Allen that the strident comments in Preludium and the rest (Stand Firm as well) are helping to alienate the two factions all the more. Maybe DOK is our best hope for reconciliation or at least peace -- laity gathering together for fellowship and prayer.
Oooh, DOK -- Anglicanism's last, best hope for peace. Maybe you should include some Babylon 5 themes, Mary.
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