tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post2023515507634706387..comments2024-03-27T08:46:54.369-04:00Comments on BabyBlueOnline: An Honest Look at the Primates CommuniqueAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-42137047108988662642009-02-08T11:56:00.000-05:002009-02-08T11:56:00.000-05:00Robroy, Thanks for the information and mentioning ...Robroy,<BR/> Thanks for the information and mentioning David Virtue and David Phillips. Although I live in Biloxi, MS, I've been a member of Church Society for several years and applaud their stand for traditional Prayer Book evangelicalism in the C of E. Great resources on their website.<BR/> What I meant by my earlier remark is that for those of us who, by the Grace of God, were never directly involved with TEC; when will the Church in North America stop wasting their time trying to reason-with and go through the motions of meaningful, mediated discussions with an organization which at its heart wants no mediation? I imagine that many are becoming fatigued with the endless bickering. In my mind, a good divorce beats a bad marriage.RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-3637318161538289632009-02-08T10:12:00.000-05:002009-02-08T10:12:00.000-05:00George Conger has stated this with respect to the ...George Conger has stated this with respect to the Ashey analysis:<BR/><BR/><I>Phil Ashey has writen a strong, thoughtful comment with much to commend, however he has made a mistake. The primates communique does not contain a no proselytising clause, nor does it endorse the Communion Partners Fellowship or the Episcopal Visitor’s scheme instituted by Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori.<BR/><BR/>Paragraph 14 of the communique states in part. ... “we are unanimous in supporting the recommendation in paragraph 101 of the Windsor Continuation Group Report.” It then references this paragraph by a footnote. And then goes on to request mediated conversation. The request is for nothing else----no halt to proselytism, no endorsement of the Communion Partners Fellowship or the Episcopal Visitors scheme.<BR/><BR/>The footnote, number 11, is printed at the bottom of the page and it says the WCG “recommends that the Archbishop of Canterbury, in consultation with the primates, establish at the earliest opportunity a professionally mediated conversation at which all significant parties could be gathered.” The footnote then offers advise as to how this recommendation might be implemented and sets forth a number of principles.<BR/><BR/>These principles include reference to the Communion Partners Fellowship, no proselytism, and the Episcopal Visitor program.<BR/><BR/>However, these principles are not what was recommended. What was recommended was the “mediated conversation.” </I><BR/><BR/>See <A HREF="http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/20181/#333903" REL="nofollow">here</A> for the entire comment.<BR/><BR/>Ettu, I believe I read at David Virtue's blog that many didn't participate in the optional morning communion. Also, you can see the photos at Mark Harris' where Ms Schori was absent initially and then at the end where some absented themselves. <BR/><BR/>Also, see <A HREF="http://www.anglicanessentials.ca/wordpress/index.php/2009/02/07/comment-on-the-primates-meeting-from-david-phillips-general-secretary-church-society/" REL="nofollow">the essay</A> by David Phillips, General Secretary, Church Society, on primates meeting from discussing how the AC has in the past and now in present solve problems of disagreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-66143859185760166282009-02-08T06:39:00.000-05:002009-02-08T06:39:00.000-05:00I have not seen whether or not all of the Primates...I have not seen whether or not all of the Primates received Communion together in Alexandria. However, I have not heard the opposite either. So much was made of the unwillingness to be in communion over Communion at the 2 previous meetings (Dar and Dromantine) that this omission (unless I missed it) surprises me. As one who ascribes the old wisdom that "actions speak louder than words" I would appreciate hearing about the state of "communion" in regards to worship at Alexandria. Inquiring minds would like to know!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-57968642823808007632009-02-07T22:04:00.000-05:002009-02-07T22:04:00.000-05:00I think we can quote Bishop Minns from his stateme...I think we can quote Bishop Minns from his statement - and read it carefully (italics added):<BR/><BR/>"We appreciate the encouragement for those of us connected with the Anglican Church in North America <I>to continue to move forward as faithful Anglicans and to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ."</I><BR/><BR/>What do you think? My guess is that the phrase "no proselytization" means that TEC is vulnerable to more churches leaving and do not want the even the appearance that ACNA is out soliciting more separations from TEC's hostage congregations and dioceses, to put it frankly. Why the worry, I wonder? Why the worry, indeed?<BR/><BR/>The Episcopalians still inside the structures of TEC will need to decide what they want to do, but I might advise them not to take advantage of this plan to quickly for precisely the same reason Black Kettle should have never taken on a similar plan all those years ago. Who wants to be rounded up on ecclesiastical reservations - which is what this "scheme" basically is and my hat's off to anyone willing to try it - perhaps a more "stealth" undertaking might work better in the long run, if we are patient. Better that they not know where you are and hide amongst the trees, like Francis Marion. But that will take perseverance and steadfast faith.<BR/><BR/>That said, this TEC-version of the phrase is not the same as what we would understand the phrase to mean - as Bishop Minns writes quite clearly, "to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ." That of course will go on, to God be the glory. No, not even the gates of hell can stop that - and imagine a church that demanded such a thing!!<BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-71373752786330886912009-02-07T19:47:00.000-05:002009-02-07T19:47:00.000-05:00So BabyBlue, you have the ear of Bp Minns. What is...So BabyBlue, you have the ear of Bp Minns. What is up with ++Akinola signing on to a document with a "no proselytization" clause. My comment over at Titus 1:9 was that I wanted one scripture verse to justify the ACNA-ers to stop doing their utmost to lead everyone they could away from the false teachers of the TEClub. <BR/><BR/>Also, does Bp Minns/ABp Akinola really think that the Communion Partners plan and the Episcopal Visitors plan of Ms Schori is "sufficient" for disaffected Episcopalians? Could you ask one or the other?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zM10BLotaY" REL="nofollow"><BR/>There on the storm I am learning to let go<BR/>Of the will that I so long to control<BR/>There may I be in Your arms eternally<BR/>I thank you, Lord, You are the calmer of the storm.<BR/><BR/>You rebuke the wind and the waves<BR/>Once again I find I'm amazed by the power of Your will<BR/>'Cause I'm a child of little faith<BR/>I feel the wind and forget Your grace<BR/>And You say, "Peace, be still."<BR/><BR/>Teach me, Lord to have faith<BR/>In what You're bringing me will<BR/>Change my life and bring You glory<BR/></A><BR/><BR/>Good bless you, Mary!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-73584297687291869462009-02-07T19:02:00.000-05:002009-02-07T19:02:00.000-05:00Well Anon #2, perhaps it's because we do not have ...Well Anon #2, perhaps it's because we do not have a supreme heretic like KJS to pronounce the party line.<BR/><BR/>We are permitted to speak our minds without fear of being deposed/sued by our leadership...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-79811579691374750732009-02-07T16:38:00.000-05:002009-02-07T16:38:00.000-05:00Heh. You might want to purchase an iPhone, anon.b...Heh. You might want to purchase an iPhone, anon.<BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-33458623184202358012009-02-07T16:21:00.000-05:002009-02-07T16:21:00.000-05:00Perhaps the fact that the proposed ACNA cannot eve...Perhaps the fact that the proposed ACNA cannot even manage one co-ordinated response to the Communique, instead of a bunch of disparate responses from its 'networks'/'clusters'/whatever, should ring some bells as to why no-one's taking you seriously...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-81794278992508449982009-02-07T13:25:00.000-05:002009-02-07T13:25:00.000-05:00Are we there yet?Are we there yet?RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-70040042839533474432009-02-07T13:09:00.000-05:002009-02-07T13:09:00.000-05:00+Phil has nailed the issues precisely. ACNA has b...+Phil has nailed the issues precisely. ACNA has been sold out in the Communique.<BR/><BR/>There are at least two reasons why orthodox primates would sign such a document: <BR/><BR/>TEC is dying and, organizationally, the least painful way to handle TEC is to allow a peaceful passing (ignores the souls lost along the way).<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>The Anglican Communion is dead and there is little reason to further debate the future.<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>The orthodox primates have other plans not yet disclosed.<BR/><BR/>It may be time for those of us in ACNA to seriously examine the value of being in the Anglican Communion. As +Peter Akinola has said: "The path to salvation does no go through Canterbury".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com