tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post7518453588697200866..comments2024-03-27T08:46:54.369-04:00Comments on BabyBlueOnline: 12 Steps to Anglican RecoveryAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-6609872357738230152008-05-20T18:44:00.000-04:002008-05-20T18:44:00.000-04:00With all the pain and havoc we've already experien...With all the pain and havoc we've already experienced, what sort of hellish bottom do we have to hit before starting the 12 steps?????TLF+https://www.blogger.com/profile/01650010433581488888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-47460723766013440452008-05-20T13:36:00.000-04:002008-05-20T13:36:00.000-04:00bb you are awesome! I always enjoy your take on t...bb you are awesome! I always enjoy your take on things and feel you are a voice of reason. Keep up the good work and may God bless you this day and always.<BR/><BR/>An admirerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-40013470295824782652008-05-20T08:05:00.000-04:002008-05-20T08:05:00.000-04:00I hope that 'ecumenical' is not going to be redefi...I hope that 'ecumenical' is not going to be redefined, as 'reconciliation' has been.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-33150040809615176792008-05-20T07:36:00.000-04:002008-05-20T07:36:00.000-04:00I wonder if Mark Harris was using "ecumenical" in ...I wonder if Mark Harris was using "ecumenical" in the future tense -- that is, recognizing that a division is happening and that we will at some point be two separate organizations. ECUSA has had discussions with the Reformed Episcopal Church over the years. beginning, I think, some 50 or so years after the REC left ECUSA. What had begun as a "family fight" became in time an ecumenical discussion.Charlie Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08726338596245954419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-21204331753102436102008-05-20T04:08:00.000-04:002008-05-20T04:08:00.000-04:00Perhaps this seems nitpicky, but "ecumenical" mean...Perhaps this seems nitpicky, but "ecumenical" means exactly "within the family." (Within the "household".) We use the term in different ways, though... <BR/><BR/>Despite the family divisions, and if we were to take "ecumenical" as something beyond that, there are real "ecumenical" issues that arise within the Anglican family: the ordination of women is a very significant one. Fort Worth, Quincy, etc. do not have quite the same relationship with all other dioceses; I know some Anglo-Catholic priests who in attending liturgies with ordained women must think of it as an "ecumenical" gesture because the "practice" <I>has</I> very much differed.samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18046817618324786021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-74772381451852097292008-05-19T23:57:00.000-04:002008-05-19T23:57:00.000-04:00Yes, you are right. It means coming out of denial ...Yes, you are right. It means coming out of denial and admitting that we are powerless. <BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-39880736254435574052008-05-19T23:11:00.000-04:002008-05-19T23:11:00.000-04:00BB, on Friday night I listened to a man practicall...BB, on Friday night I listened to a man practically beg the PB to find a way to settle these disputes out of court and he isn't any kind of active "dissenter". She told him "we haven't found it" [a way to settle], conveniently ignoring the fact that she ordered the litigation. It's hard to listen to that.<BR/><BR/>I sent the newspaper reporter who covered the story several of your posts regarding what went on in VA, along with the link to her video deposition where she talked about it. Unfortunately at least one liberal TEC member lurks at the top of the editorial food chain at that paper. <BR/><BR/>As far as the 12 steps, doesn't the typical alcoholic have to hit rock bottom to start taking those steps? That doesn't bode well for it happening anytime soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-63283369032274939992008-05-19T22:04:00.000-04:002008-05-19T22:04:00.000-04:00Poster number 2 (anonymous):"Made a decision to tu...Poster number 2 (anonymous):<BR/>"Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."<BR/><BR/>Isn't that exactly what has caused the estrangement in the first place?<BR/><BR/>God has told us who He is. There may be nuances in the understanding his identity, but the present rift is not about nuance. It is about fundamentals.<BR/><BR/>RalphMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-82023328949679387962008-05-19T18:47:00.000-04:002008-05-19T18:47:00.000-04:00BB, Thannk for this I think it's spot on!Mark+,Thi...BB, Thannk for this I think it's spot on!<BR/><BR/>Mark+,<BR/><BR/>This weekend was one that highlighted some real dysfunction in my family (estate business can really bring out a family's dysfunction, more than anything else, I actually wish we were fighting over money and property because then I'd understand it). In one sense I'd love to divorce them & I take a very conservative view on divorce, but I do have a little more empathy for those who feel stuck (these are blood relatives, so I'm stuck with them).<BR/><BR/>Then both of my parents are following a trend of dysfunction, much more on one side than the other. A revelation came to just how much this has impacted me emotionally and caused troubles outside the family but also what a poor witness we present for any Truth claim for Christ.<BR/><BR/>I think BB hit the nail squarely on the head with, "Our problem is not an ecumenical problem, it's a family problem and it will take a family solution."<BR/><BR/>Forgiveness is mandated, but reconciliation is very hard and takes a lot of effort from both parties when things have gone this far. <BR/><BR/>My family is not as divided as the Anglican Communion is ... or maybe we are in that it's a family holiday thing were we all show up but most of the time live independent lives never really having to interact and when there is interaction there often little jabs. In the bigger picture, events happen that finally brought a rupture. I think BB's adaptation of the 12 steps is humbling yet also scary, for all parties would need to be willing to move through them close to the same time else it'd not work.<BR/><BR/>Still leaves the question dangling in my mind of what true repentance and reconciliation means in numerous circumstances.<BR/><BR/>KevinKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-55181454988292724312008-05-19T18:11:00.000-04:002008-05-19T18:11:00.000-04:00Step 3 should have the words, "as we understandd H...Step 3 should have the words, "as we understandd Him", on the end. <BR/><BR/>Step 3 reads, "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."<BR/><BR/>It's key in the program to work with God as you yourself understand him, and not to try to work within another's understanding of God.<BR/><BR/>It seems that this key part of Step 3, our understanding of God, is where our hang up lies after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-75599469259919906832008-05-19T13:58:00.000-04:002008-05-19T13:58:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.com