tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post5735053809054969890..comments2024-03-27T08:46:54.369-04:00Comments on BabyBlueOnline: The Last Day in Court (at least for now)Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-74398859139358948932008-10-29T01:29:00.000-04:002008-10-29T01:29:00.000-04:00I would be nice if BB could at least spell my name...I would be nice if BB could at least spell my name correctly. It is "Gundersen." Secondly, Ed Bond and I signed a contract with the Diocese of Virginia to write the 400th anniversary history in April 2005, a full year and a half before the parishes currently involved in litigation voted to separate from TEC. As for why the history starts with Jamestown, that's simple. Jamestown was IN the Diocese of Virginia until the Diocese of Southern Virginia was formed from the southern half of the Diocese of Virginia in the 1890s. Perhaps BB ought to actually try reading the history. Ed Bond and I had no communication about his testimony and, in fact, I did not even know he had been asked to testify until after he had finished in court.Joan R. Gundersenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16250917614108590714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-67680281984495704592008-10-22T12:12:00.000-04:002008-10-22T12:12:00.000-04:00As an ecumenical partner to TEC (ELCA pastor), it&...As an ecumenical partner to TEC (ELCA pastor), it's like watching a really had Law and Order, only the original cast of L&O rarely filmed something as smelly as all this.<BR/><BR/> What a terrible witness to the larger unChurched community this is making. My hopes and prayers continue to rest with the CANA pastors and their congregations. It's bad enough our "partner" in ministry has lost their theological way, but to subject fellow believers to this level of legal oppression is simply evil. There, I said it.<BR/><BR/>BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-65037130222174941032008-10-21T13:00:00.000-04:002008-10-21T13:00:00.000-04:00The Holmes' book brings up the Glebe act of 1802 (...The Holmes' book brings up the Glebe act of 1802 (that's how I discovered it's online), it really glosses over it, but does raise a little of the tensions in Virginia at the time. Thus why BB keeps raising the issue. Now, in Alexandria, you'll not have that part of history as important because at the time you were part of the District.<BR/><BR/>There is a huge amount of irony when +Lee clams religious liberty when dealing with property. 200 years ago, there were group who claim the exact same thing but to separate property from the diocesan control (which also was at that time government control). <BR/><BR/>Somehow I'm guessing this expert historian didn't bring that part up in his testimony.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-63269628971620157442008-10-21T12:09:00.000-04:002008-10-21T12:09:00.000-04:00For those of you who have not seen it yet, there i...For those of you who have not seen it yet, there is an article on Monday's testimony in today's Washington Times.Grey Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18351797860505257570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-105406981115034722008-10-21T12:07:00.000-04:002008-10-21T12:07:00.000-04:00Kevin,I share your interest in neutral sources of ...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>I share your interest in neutral sources of history, or perhaps let's say I look for them, and sometimes by default it's several biased sources.<BR/><BR/>I have a copy of David Holmes' book and have read it - and Rev. Slaughter's History of Truro Parish. I grew up in Bethesda so I am amazed at how much more religion is tied into local history here in Alexandria. I might add that Maryland's history of religious freedom isn't quite as pure as we learned in school...but for the original 13, not bad.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-72961125917682841132008-10-21T10:15:00.000-04:002008-10-21T10:15:00.000-04:00My comment from yesterday's posting (A Bridge Too ...My comment from yesterday's posting (A Bridge Too Far) may be irrelevant as CCA's quitclaim deed vote never came up. If the vote is invalid due to procedural irregularity, then the right to TFC's property (to the extent it exists) would remain with CCA, but I assume CCA would rather not remain attached to this litigation, which was the reason for the quitclaim deed vote. I am sorry the good people of CCA have been brought into this mess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-60949865733497602372008-10-21T07:32:00.000-04:002008-10-21T07:32:00.000-04:00LynnYou should read up on Anglican history in Virg...Lynn<BR/><BR/>You should read up on Anglican history in Virginia, I'll bet much presented to you is not that accurate. Remember at one time CoE and the Government where one, in fact the separation in Virginia happened some time after the Revolution (in New England was completely different, much more like the contemporary US). <BR/><BR/>What BB writes is true, basically there was a minority government, as Episcopalians made up the upper class but the voting block were Baptists and Methodists, so it lead to great tension. It sounds as if the DioVA guy was reading history he wished had happened.<BR/><BR/>However there are plenty of good books and articles written before the current unpleasantness which are far more objective. Not a great book, but you can read David Lynn Holmes' <I>A Brief History of the Episcopal Church</I> online which references some of what we're bantering about above (the book leans a little to the propaganda side than a solid history text [he deals with the English Reformation in one chapter and conveniently drops mentioning the ugliness], but it's copyrighted 1993, so before the mess) <BR/><BR/>KevinKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-31744272058103815812008-10-21T07:15:00.000-04:002008-10-21T07:15:00.000-04:00I think I know who the nameless lady may be and I'...I think I know who the nameless lady may be and I'll say this shows how little prep DioVA lawyers have done. <BR/><BR/>I only get to be in court or depositions as a witness and it's nothing like on TV, I hate it. The CANA lawyer did a careful job of deconstruction this witness, I have a feeling there is about minute of dialog BB is not including as her lie is exposed then a careful explanation of the seriousness of being caught in a lie under oath.<BR/><BR/>It seems the judge is tired of the courtroom performances at least by what BB has written, if he'd rather end this phase and cut down a few more trees worth of writing. <BR/><BR/>It'll give other lawyer around the nation following this case something to read I guess.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-25963381313055701782008-10-21T06:04:00.000-04:002008-10-21T06:04:00.000-04:00Any word on whether the ADV will post transcripts ...Any word on whether the ADV will post transcripts again from this month's trials?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-635015451485881072008-10-21T01:12:00.000-04:002008-10-21T01:12:00.000-04:00BB, I didn't know about that Baptist connection, t...BB, I didn't know about that Baptist connection, that's interesting. I did know about the Methodists, of course - having been one as a young adult (our Associate Pastor loved church history, and the parables, and was great for conversation on both topics). I'll find some reading on the topic of the Baptists. But right now, I'm studying the church in the Middle Ages - Virginia is only a side interest.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-55656830716691505072008-10-20T23:21:00.000-04:002008-10-20T23:21:00.000-04:00Scott, always glad you drop by. God bless you.Yes,...Scott, always glad you drop by. God bless you.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I think it's better just to leave her name out of it. I wouldn't say she was timid, though, she was confident when she took the stand and was trying hard not show any anger. But I think her sunny "what's for dinner?" cheerfulness on the stand (until the endowment tax return was revealed) was a bit over the top (and take it from someone who's been there). She was just too golly-gee for the reason she was in the courtroom which had to do with the million-dollar endowment. Therefore, it was quite a contrast when she was confronted with the endowment's signed tax return.<BR/><BR/>I don't know - yet - what the point of yesterday's vote at Christ Church Alexandria since the testimony today was never able to get that far. It may come up in the briefs though. Or the impending appeal.<BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-48842434466114585532008-10-20T23:08:00.000-04:002008-10-20T23:08:00.000-04:00Oh dear. The judge must think we (and by we, I me...Oh dear. The judge must think we (and by we, I mean both sides) are nuts. I didn't realize he was Jewish and he is presiding over this lawsuit over religious lands. I wonder if he's ever really thought about that? We'll never know, of course. <BR/><BR/>As for the poor woman's testimony... how terrible that the Diocese of Virginia/TEC would put such a timid person in such a difficult position. I guess I shouldn't be too sympathetic though, to someone who wants to decamp with the Falls Church's Endowment Fund. But I do feel sorry for her. Glad you didn't catch her name.<BR/><BR/>If the Christ Church Alexandria vote from yesterday wasn't brought up, what was the point of it?<BR/><BR/>--NBSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-72946904721393046432008-10-20T22:45:00.000-04:002008-10-20T22:45:00.000-04:00A few years ago I began, finally, to read biograph...A few years ago I began, finally, to read biographies of the early leaders. It's amazing to me that these United States exist. There is no reason but grace that it should be so.<BR/><BR/>Honestly, bb, I think this whole conflict is cultural in nature. I know how powerful the southern Baptist Church (contemporary; I mean no characterization or disrespect, I mean the existing institution) is, so I can't help but wonder about the politics of this painful time.<BR/><BR/>But mainly (I'm going to bed now, so I may not catch your response), I thank you sincerely for not blowing me off. You have my respect, and I continue to link you at my blog. It's important to me that all voices stay at the table.<BR/><BR/>Blessings...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-18529731697012551102008-10-20T22:39:00.000-04:002008-10-20T22:39:00.000-04:00Alas, it did happen, NBS.Scott, I'm not sure if th...Alas, it did happen, NBS.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Scott, I'm not sure if the Southern Baptists are at the heart of the matter. The Baptists in Virginia do find their roots in the Anglican Church - I frankly don't know the history of all the Baptists, including the Southern Baptists to be serious. Many of the Baptists actually continued the Morning Prayer style of worship (I went to a Baptist wedding not long ago and the minster actually used the Book of Common Prayer for the marriage vows), they rejected having a bishop, though. And those that did become "Episcopalians" limited the powers of the bishop severely just to get the remnant to buy into it. The memories of the American Revolution in Virginia were pretty fresh.<BR/><BR/>What do you mean the "Southern Baptists?"<BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-20534363769620376942008-10-20T22:19:00.000-04:002008-10-20T22:19:00.000-04:00The part where one of their witnesses cried out "I...The part where one of their witnesses cried out "I don't want to go to jail"... you made that part up, right?<BR/><BR/>That really did not actually happen, right?<BR/><BR/><BR/>--NBSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-78419163484603119732008-10-20T22:04:00.000-04:002008-10-20T22:04:00.000-04:00LOL! (Yes, the Jews were there at the beginning, t...LOL! (Yes, the Jews were there at the beginning, too, but I hardly think they passed through...ocicbw.)<BR/><BR/>Thanks, BB.<BR/><BR/>And then, is it the southern Baptists who are at the heart of the matter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-7884428630188565042008-10-20T21:56:00.000-04:002008-10-20T21:56:00.000-04:00Actually, the judge is Jewish. bbActually, the judge is Jewish. <BR/><BR/>bbAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-644183172125340112008-10-20T21:47:00.000-04:002008-10-20T21:47:00.000-04:00Well, there it is, then. Thanks, BB, for confirmin...Well, there it is, then. Thanks, BB, for confirming my intuition that, all along, it's the southern Baptists who are at the heart of the matter. Is the judge a southern Baptist, by any chance?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com