tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post3958698327886378164..comments2024-03-27T08:46:54.369-04:00Comments on BabyBlueOnline: The June Ruine: Seven Episcopal Bishops "charged with misconduct" just days before General ConventionAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-26704745222497309832012-07-04T13:21:55.243-04:002012-07-04T13:21:55.243-04:00Sounds rather as though only those who agree with ...Sounds rather as though only those who agree with you qualify as "persons", Dale. Along the lines of the Dred Scott ruling's definition of citizenship.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-41355322415706025662012-07-04T08:22:31.374-04:002012-07-04T08:22:31.374-04:00The dimmer switch is turned down an additional not...The dimmer switch is turned down an additional notch. Will the last person to leave TEC please turn out the lights.Dale Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-61134583629048124382012-07-03T20:57:11.570-04:002012-07-03T20:57:11.570-04:00I would love to know who told Conger inasmuch as (...I would love to know who told Conger inasmuch as (it is my understanding) the emails were not meant to be a general communication...heavens, we don't even know who made the complaints!Small Farmer in The Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14271910054588466598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-28743944966448969352012-07-03T08:25:52.316-04:002012-07-03T08:25:52.316-04:00This also applies to Conger's claim re Bishops...This also applies to Conger's <a href="http://anglicanink.com/article/bishops-salmon-beckwith-and-macpherson-charged-misconduct" rel="nofollow">claim re Bishops Salmon, Beckwith & MacPherson</a> in the Quincy lawsuit, Scout.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-61721872582481336472012-07-03T08:15:52.286-04:002012-07-03T08:15:52.286-04:00I think that it holds for all the bishops, Scout. ...I think that it holds for all the bishops, Scout. I also know that a number of "Revisionists" were pretty appalled when they initially took Conger at his word, but now, after Bishop Love's letter, they have realized that it's storm in teacup time. Not sure, BTW, why BB threw Mark Lawrence into the stew, him not being a signatory of the brief in question.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-19361358128595649772012-07-03T06:41:41.088-04:002012-07-03T06:41:41.088-04:00What a wet blanket you are, LB. Just when we'...What a wet blanket you are, LB. Just when we'd all gotten ourselves completely wound up, you show up at the party with pesky facts. Complete kill joy, I'd say.<br /><br />Do you think Bishop Love's situation is applicable across the board with the other Bishops? when a complaint is filed,is there some intermediate procedural step that permits the Church not to pursue the complaint?<br /><br />Many of these Bishops are well-respected. I know a few of them and one is a schoolmate. I think it appalling that they would allow themselves to be sucked in to a dispute in which the "hierarchical" nature (vel non) of the Church is merely the last device by which reaffiliators are justifying property grabs. I assume (and hope) that they have concluded that that issue has some significance in other, more elevated issues facing the church. <br /><br />ScoutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-48694599994036427742012-07-02T22:58:52.801-04:002012-07-02T22:58:52.801-04:00For "identified" read "unidentified...For <i>"identified"</i> read <i>"unidentified"</i> in next to last paragraph of post above.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-59479121301605025572012-07-02T22:56:34.169-04:002012-07-02T22:56:34.169-04:00Your question why "they are actually are doin...Your question why <i>"they are actually are doing this and doing this right now"</i>, is very pertinent. In a June 30th <a href="http://www.albanyepiscopaldiocese.org/" rel="nofollow">letter to his diocese</a>, Bishop Love of Albany writes that he has received a letter from Bishop Matthews, stating that <i>“As the Intake Officer for the Church, I am obliged to inform you that a complaint has been received against you for your action in filing of Amicus Curiae Brief in the pending appeal in the Supreme Court of Texas"</i>.<br /><br />Bishop Love continues <i>"To date, I have not seen a copy of the “complaint,” nor do I know who issued it, or what it says.<br /><br />"While Bishop Matthews has informed me that he has received a “complaint,” against me and the other six bishops dealing with our participation in the above mentioned Amicus Curiae Brief, at this point, I have not been officially charged with anything and may not be depending on the outcome of the initial investigation of the “complaint.”"</i><br /><br />In short, all that has happened is that Bishop Love and others have been notified that a complaint has been laid against them by an identified individual. That's all, No charges have been made - nor, I'd bet, will they be.<br /><br />So why, coming back to your question, is someone - and I do not mean yourself, though I have no doubt that this is not coming from someone on TEC's side of the fence - out to make inflate this molehill into Mt Everest?Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-81783249359408885582012-07-02T17:18:41.692-04:002012-07-02T17:18:41.692-04:00Truly, there's nothing like a good old fashion...Truly, there's nothing like a good old fashioned show trial to distract from the true shape of things. <br />It just continues to amaze me though how an institution which rabidly embraces "sexual" freedom and "reproductive" freedom is so ready to crush freedom of expression with abandon.Williamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-20905598447565065412012-07-02T06:57:43.266-04:002012-07-02T06:57:43.266-04:00Amicus filings are very peculiar things. They som...Amicus filings are very peculiar things. They sometimes are very helpful to a court, taking as they can a different perspective or bringing to the fore different facts that the parties have not touched on. Other times, they are just me-toos, with the main parties lining up buddies to add paper to their respective sides of the scales. <br /><br />I've only read descriptions of the content of these amicus filings, not the filings themselves so I can't really venture an opinion on how useful the positions might be to a court. <br /><br />The idea that the Episcopal Church is not a hierarchical church is, as far as I know, a very new construct, born of desperation in a string of defeats for departing groups who have tried to have their cake and eat it too as they leave the church for more palatable denominational alignments. Prior to this crisis, I doubt very much that any secular court on the outside looking in would see in a Church that calls itself "Epsicopal" and has piles of bishops and dioceses anything but a hierarchical organization. But if one can't find a way to wriggle the hierarchical foundation stone out of the structure, one cannot win these property takeover cases in the secular courts. This is particularly true in the Diocesan departure scenarios, where people leaving the Church purport to do so as an intact Diocese, as opposed to individual parishes within a Diocese that itself stays put (as happened in Virginia). The Texas situation is clearly a crucial test for the latter scenario. <br /><br />Nonetheless, one has to wonder why the national church considers it useful to bring these charges against those who signed on to the amicus documents. There is no way to determine the validity of the discipline charges without re-litigating in a canonical setting the very issues that are before the secular courts. Clearly if Roman Catholic bishops took a similar position mitres would roll in a trice, but the fact that the national church lashes out with this kind of retributive action may, ironically and by contrast, make it look far less hierarchical than its leadership wants to appear.<br /><br />ScoutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-17111348402032459162012-06-30T22:50:51.083-04:002012-06-30T22:50:51.083-04:00So this is the "polity" of TEC? John Ho...So this is the "polity" of TEC? John Howe? Seriously? Kafka would laugh, the rest of us can just weep. The only solace I take is that the liberal bishops don't seem to realize that one day they too will cross whatever arbitrary line is drawn by 815. I assume opposition to 815's official position on TEC membership in the RCRC or possibly healthcare or immigration legislation will be next. Eventually, the revolution will consume its own.RWKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-91264520161924684162012-06-30T19:16:50.104-04:002012-06-30T19:16:50.104-04:00Sad, surprising, no, but still very sad.Sad, surprising, no, but still very sad.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-34296169896622222052012-06-30T17:45:14.227-04:002012-06-30T17:45:14.227-04:00Just imagine if the Presiding Bishop was Archbisho...Just imagine if the Presiding Bishop was Archbishop of Canterbury. We would have an Anglican Covenant with teeth, after that cleansing the remnant would be TEC and a few liberal dioceses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com