tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post2571553417480886586..comments2024-03-27T08:46:54.369-04:00Comments on BabyBlueOnline: Bishop Gene Robinson announces plans to retireAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17490745238430648958noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-28448112461057156692010-11-22T20:35:25.007-05:002010-11-22T20:35:25.007-05:00Lakeland Two,
Thank you for your comments.
As to...Lakeland Two,<br /><br />Thank you for your comments.<br /><br />As to the requirement, of which I have been well aware, that parishes consider women candidates for rector, I find this falls far short of forcing women priests on a congregation. The vestry is free to reject those women candidates.<br /><br />I had forgotten the Bristol parish, but was under the impression that many of the conservative parishioners had left with Fr. Hansen. If that was not the case, then I think that even as an interim appointment this was unwise.<br /><br />I would guess, without any evidence, that the number of congregations denied permission to consider women clergy is far larger than the m=number of those that have been forced to call a woman.<br /><br />I think we can agree that bishops can be autocratic - as can priests.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-54908412517050248102010-11-19T15:50:58.155-05:002010-11-19T15:50:58.155-05:003:26 was a duplicate. Sorry.3:26 was a duplicate. Sorry.Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-78170894752953275002010-11-19T15:26:23.433-05:002010-11-19T15:26:23.433-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-85852610349320277532010-11-19T15:24:33.161-05:002010-11-19T15:24:33.161-05:00OK. I wanted to have more time to research, etc.,...OK. I wanted to have more time to research, etc., but will go ahead with what's been on my mind on this.<br /><br />Are women priests forced on a diocese/congregation.<br /><br />The Constitution and Canons alone force an issue which is ironic. When it suits TEC they want to use goverment prinicples, yet when it suits them - First Amendment. This issue plays out here. <br /><br />Title III, Canon 1.2 and 1.3:<br /><i>Sec. 2. <b>No person shall be denied access to the discernment process for any ministry, lay or ordained, in this Church because of race, color, ethnic origin, national origin, <a rel="nofollow">sex</a>, marital status, <a rel="nofollow">sexual orientation</a>, disabilities or age</b>, except as otherwise provided by these<br />Canons. No right to licensing, ordination, or election is hereby<br />established.<br /><br />Sec. 3. <b>The provisions of these Canons for the admission of<br />Candidates for the Ordination to the three Orders: Bishops, Priests<br />and Deacons shall be equally applicable to men <a rel="nofollow">and women</a></b>.</i><br /><br />So, just in the Canons alone is a forced element. If anyone in the process chooses to elimiate based on conscience of no women, they are violating the Canons. And disciple being what it is, someone not wanting to adhere to that will be disciplined a lot faster than anything else.<br /><br />I was on our search committee and I and several others on the committee were by told by several of our congregation they did not want a woman as a priest and would leave. Which surprised me since our church is on the liberal edge bleeding into full liberal. We got the talk from the diocese rep that we had to consider females and could not say give us just men candidates. Why? That would violate the law. When does it apply to a church and when does it not? When the powers that be want that agenda. The women candidates we were given were not what our congregation wanted on other levels - as were about 90% of the men as well. So some in our congregation were "forced" to consider women.<br /><br />Those who are in conservative congregations who have a woman bishop have a woman forced on them. <br /><br />St. John's in Bristol, CT. One of the Conneticut Six. In Bishop Smith's own words: <i>"On Wednesday, July 13, about 9:45 a.m. the Rev. Susan McCone and I came to the parish office to deliver copies of the Inhibition of Father Mark Hansen and a copy of the letter in which <a rel="nofollow">I appoint the Rev. Susan McCone Priest in Charge of the parish.</a>"</i><br /><br />Now, Fr. Weir, if you have a congregation that's known to be that conservative, what's the point of putting a woman in?<br /><br />That's forced. The choice not to have a woman priest has been removed. All it takes is one person on a search committee to throw out a card that says so. And off to the secular courts they go.Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-22917024235364424672010-11-16T19:34:49.813-05:002010-11-16T19:34:49.813-05:00I've been spending some time in the constituti...I've been spending some time in the constitution and canons - which has been interesting and will share that later this evening. I've been busy offline and have only dabbled a little as pleased me the last couple of days. Will respond, sorry to make Fr. Weir wait.Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-84036260055293477092010-11-16T18:11:24.265-05:002010-11-16T18:11:24.265-05:00It seems to me that the claim that there were cong...It seems to me that the claim that there were congregations that were forced to call women priests has not been supported by any evidence - at least on this blog.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-10593757328887582152010-11-15T20:47:46.338-05:002010-11-15T20:47:46.338-05:00Since Lakeland Two hasn't responded, perhaps s...Since Lakeland Two hasn't responded, perhaps someone else can provide me with information about non-WO congregations that been forced to call women priests. I know of parishes where the vestry was denied the right to consider women priests, but I haven't heard of a call being mandated against the will of the vestry.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-75690047017873207952010-11-09T11:49:44.053-05:002010-11-09T11:49:44.053-05:00I will wait for Lakeland Two's further comment...I will wait for Lakeland Two's further comments, but I do recognize that there has been nasty rhetoric from some on both sides of the issue, but not from me.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-32602391299115779252010-11-09T11:02:03.054-05:002010-11-09T11:02:03.054-05:00You have got to be kidding me...or yourself. Or h...You have got to be kidding me...or yourself. Or hoping to mislead others. The bishops alone who do not believe in WO have been the targets of such hate and ridicule from TEC leadership. That's being "inclusive"? How about the fact that even though non-WO bishops allowed women to go to other dioceses to become priests only to be attacked still? <br /><br />Have you not read Katie Sherrod's attacks alone?<br /><br />Physical world calls. I will come back to the "forced" part of Fr. Weir's comments later. But, yes, women have been forced on non-WO congregations.Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-76144352519550896202010-11-09T10:41:07.696-05:002010-11-09T10:41:07.696-05:00. I an sorry if I have been less than civil to oth.... I an sorry if I have been less than civil to others in this forum.<br /><br />The friends I have in NH are not at all unhappy with the care they have received from their Bishop.The diocese seems to be very healthy. It is a reality of life these days that Bishops are often required to be away from their dioceses, although it is probably true that Gene was away more than most. <br /><br />The question of women's ordination continues to surface - with expressions like "shoved down many of our throats." I think that those of us who supported the ordination of women were often remarkably patient with Bishops who didn't. We allowed those Bishops to veto the calling of women by parishes for years, effectively saying the a Bishop's convictions trump those of everyone else in the diocese. As far as I know, no Bishop has been forced to ordain a woman in violation of his conscience, nor has a vestry be forced to call a woman.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-88671790983816300362010-11-09T09:48:58.263-05:002010-11-09T09:48:58.263-05:00Fr. Weir,
How he conducts himself now until his r...Fr. Weir,<br /><br />How he conducts himself now until his retirement will reflect the truth, as well as following his retirement.<br /><br />My problem with this is if he is so worn out, why doesn't he stay home and stop traveling everywhere. The main job is taking care of his diocese. Serious question is how much time has he spent in his diocese versus out of it promoting the "cause"?<br /><br />I have gay people in my life whom I love dearly. Gene may be a gentle person, that's not the issue. (How you've treated some of us isn't all that kind either - so your ding doesn't carry the bite you think it does.)<br /><br />As a Christian leader Gene is called to a different standard. He would have had more of my respect if he had gone with others of like belief and created a different entity rather than pushing out others in the name of inclusiveness. If he wanted to marry his partner, go do it, but leave leadership - or go start your own church. Whether he personally pushed away doesn't become the point, he's part of the movement and he's running with the pack.<br /><br />If the Anglican tent is so big, why couldn't the reappraisers have said, OK, we believe this way and if you don't, that's OK? Instead, like Women's Orders, it's been shoved down many of our throats, with dissent being stomped on. Instead of growth, we have decrease across the board. At what cost? It is because there is no room for dissent that I have the most issue with - especially in the name of "inclusiveness".Closing Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424188419413426448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-9923372372551516102010-11-08T09:55:36.972-05:002010-11-08T09:55:36.972-05:00I will refrain from commenting on what I see as th...I will refrain from commenting on what I see as the nastier comments in this thread. Gene has been my friend for more than 30 years and he is a far gentler person than many that I encounter here. I would say that he is not alone in announcing his retirement early and I see his reasons for that as those he has stated, i.e., to provide time for an orderly transition, and not "to heighten the drama."Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-8940426870188581662010-11-08T08:39:12.747-05:002010-11-08T08:39:12.747-05:00love the spin on nos in the article.... TEC has 2m...love the spin on nos in the article.... TEC has 2m members and NH is down only 3% ......... but ASA is down 18% since 2003 in NHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-77608687946410517922010-11-07T18:13:18.803-05:002010-11-07T18:13:18.803-05:00"Now perhaps, dear readers, you live in a dif..."Now perhaps, dear readers, you live in a different world to me, but in my world stressed people who cite stress as a reason for early retirement do not then stay in the job for a further 26 months!"<br />It's intended to heighten the drama.Dale Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-29916763052946577262010-11-07T14:08:18.397-05:002010-11-07T14:08:18.397-05:00Anglican Down Under has some interesting thoughts ...<b>Anglican Down Under</b> has some interesting thoughts about all of this in his posting "<a href="http://anglicandownunder.blogspot.com/2010/11/not-much-news-in-this-announcement.html" rel="nofollow">Not much news in this announcement</a>." A money quote:<br /><br />"Now perhaps, dear readers, you live in a different world to me, but in my world stressed people who cite stress as a reason for early retirement do not then stay in the job for a further 26 months!"Fr. Bryan Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02040773309359417883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-38459918566821660562010-11-07T12:00:17.257-05:002010-11-07T12:00:17.257-05:00There may be good news here for +Gene. It's p...There may be good news here for +Gene. It's possible that God has laid something on his heart - and that he knows he will wrestle with this better if he is not an active bishop.<br /><br />We can pray for him.<br /><br />I've never known him to deny the essentials of Christ's identity. There is much more hope for +Gene than for those who are active in ministry and do this.Wilfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-68155987585691469752010-11-07T11:28:38.588-05:002010-11-07T11:28:38.588-05:00Boy oh boy are we gonna miss him.
IntercessorBoy oh boy are we gonna miss him.<br />IntercessorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-77290911573378387262010-11-07T08:25:48.025-05:002010-11-07T08:25:48.025-05:00So, basically, it took less than a decade to destr...So, basically, it took less than a decade to destroy an entire denomination and render the idea of an Anglican Communion virtually useless.RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-43777565188663789412010-11-06T21:19:42.754-04:002010-11-06T21:19:42.754-04:00“Death threats, and the now worldwide controversy ...“Death threats, and the now worldwide controversy surrounding your election of me as bishop, have been a constant strain, not just on me, but on my beloved husband, Mark” and on Episcopalians in the state, he said.<br /><br />Poor Bishop Gene - ever the victim..<br /><br />RalphMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23327221.post-2243966311851034492010-11-06T20:37:27.570-04:002010-11-06T20:37:27.570-04:00Don't forget that liturgies for ssbs should co...Don't forget that liturgies for ssbs should come out of GC 2012. +VGR can then go out on a high note.Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.com